Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo AUTOMATIC (A 2110)

General:

When the AUTOMATIC hub was developed the DUOMATIC hub was already on the market. This was the Wirtschaftswunder (booming economic) years in Germany. Even the sky was no limit anymore. With this background the developers and engineers from Sachs in Schweinfurt had a heroic goal.

Developing a 2 speed hub with a pure mechanical AUTOMATICAL shifting mechanism and without any kind of bowden cables. They achived already a pure mechanical shifting mechanism without bowden cables with the DUOMATIC. Now the next objective was to automate the shifting mechanism.

This was a tricky but the solution was found. The centrifugal force! A force which is was never used again in the history of internally geared hubs.

While reaching a certain rear wheel cadence (rotation frequency) a centrifugal weight moves to a outer position and shifts from gear one into gear two. When you reduce the cadence the centrifugal weight will stay in the outer position and shifts down in the moment you´ll reduce the pedal force.

The shifting point for the AUTOMATIC hub was defined between 16 – 18 km/h. To achive this feature for different wheel sizes there were two versions available:

  • Red Version (see picture above) for 20″ up to 24″ rear wheels (centrifugal weight 15 gr.).
  • Blue Version (see picture above) for 26″ up to 28″ rear wheels (centrifugal weight 15 gr.).

The shifting point is defined by a little spring which is in contact with one of the centrifugal weights. This means that the centrifugal bodies have the same weight (15 gr./body. I stripped the hubs and checked this!)

This is great because stretching or pushing this little spring makes it easy to optimize the shifting point for your purpose.

When you use the Red version in a 26″ to 28″ wheel the shifting point will be at a higher speed (19 – 20 km/h). The Blue version will shift at a lower speed in a 20″ to 24″ wheel (10 – 14 km/h).

The AUTOMATIC hub is the only hub which uses the centrifugal force to shift between the two gears. The DUOMATIC hub was already a never reached kind of autarkic mechanism with fantastic german Maschinenbau competences indside. Beside the DUOMATIC hub the AUTOMATIC represents the edge of mechanically shifting internal geared hubs.

This hub is the rarest Fichtel & Sachs hub. It was produced since 1966 and only for a few years. The customer prioritized the amount of gears higher than a maintenance and adjustment free hub! The majority of these hubs comes with 28 spoke holes for the Klapprad 20″ purpose. Only a minority with 36 holes. These were hubs were mainly sold in the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden. There were some all year cyclists in these countries who rated ease of maintenance and adjustment higher than the amount of gears. Two are enough!

The AUTOMATIC internal gear hub owns 2 gears:

Gear 1 Ratio 1:1

Gear 2 Ratio 1:1,36

Reviews / Announcements:

  • Pictures and Explosion Drawings (German): Andree Schote is the reference concerning Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo AUTOMATIC gear hubs.
  • The internal hub gear review show details on the performance of the AUTOMATIC hub.
  • The AUTOMATIC hub was also used for Tandem purpose.
  • A interesting Urban Bike concept with the Torpedo AUTOMATIC hub on Ebay.
  • The AUTOMATIC hub has the same history like the DUOMATIC kick-back hub. The origin of the hub was the Klapprad (German folding bicycle in the booming 70th of the last century). The market required a “wireless” hub for the Klappräder.

Maintenance / Installation Documents:

  • Here are the pics of the original installation and maintenance flyer (Click on the pics to enlarge!).

Drawings / Spareparts:

  • Explosion drawing of the Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo AUTOMATIC internally geared hub.

Pictures:

  • Drawing of the Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo AUTOMATIC internally geared hub.
  • AUTOMATIC hub for demonstration purpose with internal view

Hubstripping:

  • F&S AUTOMATIC hubstrip pictures (seperate slide folder)
  • AUTOMATIC movie 1(The coaster brake cone moves by turning the pinion backwards into the coaster casing. The casing spreads and touches the inner hub shell. This friction causes the brake effect!)
  • AUTOMATIC movie 2( The ratches slide under the ring gear in one direction. In the other direction the ratches take the ring gear with them. These ratches are responsible for the Torpedo sound!)
  • AUTOMATIC movie 3(See the switching mechanism of the AUTOMATIC hub. The two centrifugal weights move in synchrony from a central position to an outer position under rotation = second gear. Under a lower rotation frequency a little spring tears the centrifugal bodiess back to the inner central position = first gear)

Links:

  • Spareparts and used hubs (German): Jens Hansen is another reference concerning Fichtel & Sachs, SRAM and Shimano hubs.



  1. guenther stolarz

    hallo,

    are your sachs torpede automatics new or with garantie?
    i need one for my 20×175 small tandem.

    i have one automatic but its not ok –
    perhaps you could repair it?

    thanks!
    guenther stolarz

    my english is not the best,
    if you speak german,
    you can answer in german
    – i live in berlin-

  2. Guenther,

    the hubs are new (old stock). This means the grease inside the hubs has to be changed before using the hub. I´am a private person so there is no guarantee.

    To repair these old hubs you need spareparts. This is the problem! These hubs are already very rare and this is also the case for spareparts.

    Therefore I offer no repair service.

    Gruß,

    Marco

    • jerry

      Hi, I would like tu use Torpedo duomatic or automatic with the belt drive. I have clasic Alan frame. Which type you prefare? How much is for shipping to Prague, Czech rep. Price? Thanks a lot for quick reply Best JERRY

    • Anonymous

      Hi Marco, do you parts for hub or entire Hub SACHS Torpedo automatic?

      Thanks,

      Francis.

  3. Addi

    Hi, i just bought an automatic hub from ebay (cos 100 Euro is way too much money for a hub not been optimized by a mechanic). I bought the red version for 20″-24″ and build a rear wheel for my old Bridgestone 28″ Steel Frame. First i used a 48 tooth chainwheel and a 18 tooth sprocket, but i had to change it to 42 – 18 (2,33) to make it comfortable. I like it and i´m thinking about to put away the coasterbrake, the hub could loose 200 Grams of weight and it would look more straight..
    If anyone has a problem with sachs hubs, contact me, i´m able to fix the most problems. You can ask for the price for cleaning and refreshing sachs hubs. Greetings!! promotape at gmx de

  4. Ryan

    I am looking for a F&S Automatic (Blue Version) 36H, I have my 26″ bike set up with the Red version and didn’t realize that there are two models.

    Do you happen to have an Automatic (Blue Version) 36H for sale?

  5. Chris Wright

    Hi – I have a few Moulton bikes with Duomatic hubs and I was wondering what happens if the Automatic hub was put into a smaller wheel than 20″ (eg 17 or 16″). Would it mean that second gear engages too quickly because the wheel spins faster at a lower speed?

  6. HasagPolar

    Hello

    I am intressed for a blue automatic version.
    I have some for me?
    Price?

    Greets from Switzerland Stefan

  7. Patrick

    Hello Marco,

    Do you still have the 36H 26 -28 ” version for sale? If yes what would be the price?

    Regards,

    Patrick

  8. Axel

    Hello,

    I`m interessed in a 36-Hole 28-inch version of the automatic hub.
    Do you still have some for sale or do you know any possibility of purchasing one?
    Thanks an greetigs to all automatic-drivers

    Axel

  9. Vellu

    Hello, and thanks for the really informatic pages. Would you happen to have a blue automatic hub with 36 holes left for sale? Any advices where to find one, would also be appreciated.

    Cheers, keep up the good work!

  10. Thomas

    Hi,

    I´m intrested in a blue automatic version.

    Would be great if you have one for me or give me some information, where i can get one.

    Thanx a lot
    Tom

    • marcell

      hy.i have an automatic hub if intrested let me know on my e mail.:hadidy1092@hotmail.com

      cheers marcell

  11. Adam

    I have a couple questions.

    I am filming a movie on an old rail to trail, trail from Pittsburgh to Washing D.C. Since the incline will not be too strenuous the two gears will be all that is needed.

    First question, if I bought ten hubs would there be a discount on the shipping?

    Secondly do you just have the red version, or do you have the blue version as well?

    I have a yellow bendix on a ’72 Schwinn Sports Tourer, and I was wondering if the red and blue versions use the kick back method to switch between gears. I read somewhere they chance gears automatically and I do not want this!

    And what is the spacing on the red and blue versions?

    Thank you.

  12. Hi Adam,

    if you want to change manually the gears you can use the DUOMATIC hub for your project.
    The spacing of the Duomatic hub is 110mm and the total axle length is 155mm.

    The shipment charges (10 hubs) to the US are 65,- Euro.

    There should be a lot of interested hubstripping customers who are interested in your movie project.

    Maybe you can put us in the loop via some comments here.

    Gruß,
    Marco

  13. Mark

    gday

    was wondering if you have any automatic hubs for sale?

    cheers

    Mark

  14. nasko

    Hi,
    could you please give me a contact for uk dealer or I am happy to puchase from you .At what price?

  15. Rolle

    Hi! Is there any Automatic hubs left?

    /Rolle

    • Hi Rolle,

      sorry for the late answer. I was on “Internet Free” holidays and my out of office reply was deleted due to a server shut down!

      There are no Automatics left. It should not be easy to find a dealer. Sometimes there are some Automatic hubs on ebay.de.

      The Duomatic hubs are still available!

      Gruß,

      Marco

  16. Charles Waagenaar

    Helloo,
    is it possible for me to by an ‘automatic’ from torpedo voor 36 spikes?
    Thank you.
    Charles Waagenaar.

    • Hi Charles,

      sorry for the late answer. I was on “Internet Free” holidays and my out of office reply was deleted due to a server shut down!

      There are no Automatics left. It should not be easy to find a dealer. Sometimes there are some Automatic hubs on ebay.de.

      The Duomatic hubs are still available!

      Gruß,

      Marco

      • RL Dickerson

        Do you still have Duomatic hubs for sale?
        By chance do you have any single speed coaster hubs for sale?
        I am interested in buying F&S hubs.
        Thank you,
        Randy

  17. Bruce

    Hello Marco!

    I have cleaned/lubed/laced/installed the new Automatic hub into a 451mm wheeled bike .. it works perfectly, but shifts too early for my project (18kph).. I would like to move the shift point to 24kph.. have you adjusted a hub to shift later? if so, how was it done? Did you need to make different springs?

    Thanks,
    Bruce

  18. cy

    just found this page… thanks for putting it up.

    purchased a Sachs two speed hub thinking it was a duomatic. it kept on shifting automatically… I thought there was something wrong with my hub.

    it’s identified as a blue 36 hole automatic hub. now all I need to do is change tension on shifter spring to suit my change point.

    thanks,
    charles in Tulsa

  19. Bruce

    Hi Duomatic lovers. I have completed a recent build using one of Marco’s NOS Red Automatic hubs and installing it in a 2009 Dahon Mu Uno folding bike .. after a few hundred miles of use, I am hooked.. a really sweet hub.. pictures and a few more comments are located at this site..

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=592559

  20. Rolle

    Yes!!! I’ve found a used blue Sachs Automatic!! I bought it for 116 dollars.

  21. Rolle

    Soon I have TWO blue Automatic hubs. I´ve order the second one yesterday.

  22. junthong

    hello,

    i need to fixed my moulton bike! how much you want to sell it, please advise?
    thanks,
    junthong

    • Rolle

      Hi junthong! I am sorry, but the hub/hubs are not for sale.

      • Rolle

        Hi Marco! I think that you´ve done a year mistake. It says that the production of the Automtaic started in 1966 and lasted only for a few years. Jens Hansen says that the production started 1973-1980 when the Duomatic hub disaperred. What do you think about this?

  23. Bruce

    Hello fellow automatic lovers! I have been riding my recent Titanium framed 700c project for the past few months and love it… pure bicycling joy! Here’s a link to pictures .

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?665816-Setting-up-2-speed-kickback-hub.-Any-experience&p=11253436&viewfull=1#post11253436

  24. sulaiman

    i need one fo torpidi hub for 26 whells was som body have
    please contact to me by e-mail

    sulaiman
    thailand

  25. If anyone is after nos duomatics or bendix 2 speed kick backs or refurbished units, parts or advice , I have plenty in stock and can help you out walshfamily@westnet.com.au kevin

  26. Shozo

    New SRAM Automatic 2-speed:

    http://tinyurl.com/4cnrt49

  27. Does this really work well? Maybe automatic shifting is annoying in some situations, for example shifting up when pedaling hard against the wind when keeping a higher cadence would be better. Does it shift up and down over and over again when you are riding at about the shifting speed? Maybe the mechanism even slowly destroys itself by shifting under heavy load (when you try to keep speed while approaching a hill).

    Christian

  28. Hi .I am Ovidiu Golescu from Roumania….I need one torpedo automatic 2 gang, who can help me please? pintea_guitar@yahoo.com

  29. Amazing things here. I am very glad to look your post. Thanks a lot and I’m having a look ahead to contact you. Will you kindly drop me a mail?

  30. Ryan

    I have a 36h Duomatic, fresh & ready to ride. I’d like to trade it for a 36h Automatic blue or red. Thanks! ryanbetor(at) gmail dot com.

  31. Pedro

    Hi there where can I get one blue for my Bike, living in Portugal

  32. Hi everyone.My name its Ovidiu Golescu from Roumania.I have a bike from Germany with torpedo automatic 2 gangs 36 s. I need this hub new. If someone have or know something let me know pleasein this email pintea_guitar@yahoo.com or give me a phone nr pleeeeeeeeeeease I need this torpedo….I love my bike

  33. Gabor

    Hi together,

    I’ve got a 36h Automatic hub for sale. I think it’s a blue version, but the label is lost. Excellent condition from daily use.

    Details and pictures in email:

    palosgabor@gmail.com Hungary

  34. Aaron

    Just put my red 20h hub on craigslist.
    https://post.craigslist.org/manage/4583789312/gvr3r
    I was happy with the 23 cog’s range everywhere.

  35. Steve Weeks

    This is SPAM

  36. eliotk

    Thanks for reporting that Steve, I’ve removed the comment.

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