Links:
- Pictures and Explosion Drawings (German): Andree Schote is the reference concerning Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo Duomatic gear hubs.
- Spareparts and used hubs (German): Jens Hansen is another reference concerning Fichtel & Sachs, SRAM and Shimano hubs.
Technical Specifications:
The Duomatic internal gear hub has 2 gears:
Gear 1 Ratio 1:1
Gear 2 Ratio 1:1,36
There are two versions existing:
- old versions (1964 – @1970) come with a 10,5mm axel diameter, two flat sides of the axle and a capped lubricator on the hub shell (Duomatic 102).
- new version (@1970 – @1980)with common 9,5 mm axel diameter (Duomatic R 2110) and without lubricator.
The build up of these two versions is also different. Please check exploded views.
The mounting width of the hub is 112mm. Today standard frames have a mounting width of 135mm. It´s very easy to reduce the mounting width of a 135mm steel frame to serve a Duomatic. Lay the frame flat on the ground and push with your hands on one drop out softly. Check step by step the changments of width. When you reach 117mm it´s enough. The last remaning 5mm will be no problem for wheel mounting.
Aluminim frames should be handeld by a bike dealer. It´s a refratory material which should be handeld with special tools and experience.
Dimensions of the Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo Duomatic R 2110 gear hub (new Version)
Exploded view of the Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo Duomatic R 2110 gear hub (new Version)
Exploded view of the Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo Duomatic 102 gear hub (old Version)
Maintenance:
These are the original Maintenance instructions for a Duomatic internal gear hub.
There are two versions existing:
- new version (@1970 – @1980)with common 9,5 mm axel diameter (Duomatic R 2110) and without lubricator.
- old versions (1964 – @1970) come with a 10,5mm axel diameter, two flat sides of the axle and a capped lubricator on the hub shell (Duomatic 102).
Many thanks to Wendy for this detailed Duomatic Maintenance document. It offers a detailed view to necessary maintenance procedures and will also help you to repack the hub with new grease
Here the instructions for the new version:
Here the instructions for the old version:
Dating a Fichtel & Sachs hub:
When you have a look on th hub shell of old Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo hubs you´ll find a letter on it. They started in the year 1958 with the letter “A” and went with each year forward. The “I” and the “Q” was not used to prevent a mix-up with the “J” and the “O”. In 1975 the letters moved on the brake lever. On the brake lever you´ll find two letters. The lower on represents the production year. The upper letter the production month.
| A = 1958 | D = 1961 | G = 1964 | K = 1967 | N = 1970 | R = 1973 |
| B = 1959 | E = 1962 | H = 1965 | L = 1968 | O = 1971 | S = 1974 |
| C = 1960 | F = 1963 | J = 1966 | M = 1969 | P = 1972 | T = 1975 |
| U = 1976 | W = 1978 | Y = 1980 | A = 1982 | C = 1984 | E = 1986 |
| V = 1977 | X = 1979 | Z= 1981 | B = 1983 | D = 1985 | F = 1987 |
and so on. Since 1989 the production week and year is uncoded punched in the brake lever or the hub flange.
These are informations from Herbert Kuner and his page www.rijwiel.net or try this are a lot of informations concerning historical bicycles and parts. Especially hubs!
Another intersting dating page is Fahrradsucht.de!
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Recent Comments
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December 15, 2007 at 4:06 am
I have sent a couple of emails about buying some hubs, but no answer. What’s up? Any left. I would really like to buy two duomatics.
Thanks.
December 15, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Hi Cruiser,
there are still some Duomatics left. I´ll sent you the details!
Gruß,
Marco
December 19, 2007 at 7:21 am
I would REALLY like a Doumatic! How can I get one? Thanks!
December 19, 2007 at 6:32 pm
Hi Ed,
if your interested sent me a note:
pizzaman_karlsruhe@gmxdotde
“dot=.”
Gruß,
Marco
July 11, 2009 at 4:43 am
I would love one of these hubs. If there are any left, please let me know how to get one. Also, on the subject of Sachs hubs, I have been having a heck of a time locating an axle for a Sachs Torpedo three speed with a coaster brake. It actually has “Bendix Torpedo” stamped on the hub shell, but it is the same hub as the Sachs. I also need a shifter, nuts, and indicator. Sturmey Archer parts are easy to find, not so with Sachs. Thanks.
Please email Trevor at threespeednerd@gmail.com.
December 28, 2007 at 6:05 pm
I need 250-300 torpedo duomatic on a 20” wheel with 2.5 m”m spokes.please advise.
December 29, 2007 at 4:55 pm
Hy Marco,
what a fine idea, no cable going to the rear with that hub. Hopefully you got still on left? I sent you a note.
January 10, 2008 at 10:56 pm
How long is the axle? Is there any way this can be fit into a 130mm spaced road bike frame (with spacers)?
I had one of these duomatics as a kid on my 20 inch bike and almost forgot about this until seeing your website!
January 12, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Feilx – I’ve just built a wheel on a Duomatic – in a 120mm spaced frame. The axle is about 160mm and since the drive side cone is attached to the axle there is no possibility of swapping it for a longer one. If your dropouts are thin this might be long enough – however you would have to accept a dished wheel. I wanted zero dish and had to add more spacers to one side than the other, so that there is only just enough axle on one side for the nut.
January 16, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Hi Marco,
many thanks for the frequent feedback about my order and the quick and well packed delivery! Today arrived my “gem” Duomatic
January 17, 2008 at 12:39 am
Ignore my previous comment – it appears that the drive side cone & sun gear (one piece) is not fixed to the axle, so adjustment of axle position and axle replacement would both be possible. Do not ask how I have discovered this
January 20, 2008 at 12:15 am
OK, further clarification. Putting spacers on the drive side is a no-no. The serrated end of the cone must be right up against the dropout or the cone will rotate under load, over-tightening the bearings. Spacers on the other side are fine but will move the brake arm away from the chainstay – on my 120mm spaced frame this is fine but might be problematic on a wider frame. A dished wheel is also inevitable (even with no spacers there will be a slight dish – the flanges are slightly asymmetric); again this is ok with 120mm spacing but the dish will be more extreme the wider you go. Short of welding the cone to the axle I can’t see a way round these problems.
January 20, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I agree on the statments from fmackay. The cone of the Automatic / Duomatic drive site has the function of a frictional connection. Mount no spacer which will let the hub rotate here! Anything is allowed which will establish a closed linkage between the hub cone and the frame dropout.
I made the best experience by reduceing the frame dropoutdistance! This sounds maybe be strange to some of you but for steel frames there is nearly no limit. I changed some from 135mm to 110mm. It´s also possible to place the two dropouts in the exact chainline position.
Behind this approach stands the idea that the rear hub is the center of the bicycle! The other parts have to be built around the hub!!!
Just fix your frame and work with your hands. Step by step! Measuring and testing with the hub you want to use.
There are also some tools available who help you to work very accurate.
http://www.roseversand.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=156&detail=10&detail2=564
Aluminium frames are very rigid! Please contact your bike dealer or try it but with a lot if sense (5mm is always possible!)!
Gruß
Marco
February 12, 2008 at 5:36 am
My 36 spoke Duomatic shows an “N” next to the “36″ stamped in the hub.Does this mean it`s from 1970?
February 13, 2008 at 10:42 pm
The hub with the “N” is from 1970. Your right!
Gruß,
Marco
May 6, 2008 at 4:02 am
I recently tripped over your wonderful blog while perusing the internet for a nice internally geared hub and it looks like I found the perfect thing in this Automatic/Duomatic hub. I Know its been a few months since the last post but do you have any hubs left in your collection?
Thanks
May 6, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Kelly,
the hubs are still available (100,- Euro / hub).
Gruß,
Marco
June 18, 2008 at 5:10 am
I received the hubs in perfect condition on friday. Very nice internal machining. I built two wheels and mounted them on my wife’s and my track bikes. They are great- perfect with a 21 tooth sprocket for hilly country.
Our frames are 120 mm wide and I found you can use a 9.5 mm serrated hub nut as a spacer against the planetary cone. This prevents rotation of the planetary cone. No motion observed so far and as a former crank breaking bike racer I can produce a lot of force. I’ll keep an eye on it and see if it works well over time.
For wider frames with horizontal dropouts or fork ends, a simple solution would be to have a keyed washer made. A rectangular key milled on the washer would fit in the dropout and prevent rotation of the washer. If you use Aluminum the planetary cone will bite in very well. Any machinist could make this part in a short time.
July 14, 2008 at 4:58 am
Hi everyone,
Can anyone give me help with the dimensions (flange height eg) of the Duomatics? I don’t have one yet, but would like to order my spokes at the same time.
The local bike shops here in Australia will not help. The industry here is based on quick selling of the Chinese bikes that last one year with intensive maintenance.
The blow-up pictures seem not to have the dimensions.
I’m trying to build a super bike to last me for years. I already have an old Australian-made steel frame with nice lugging. It’s a sweet ride but would be much better with the simplicity of a Torpedo and not too many of the “unnecessaries”.
July 14, 2008 at 11:48 am
Great to see the info available on this hub. I have one out of an old Raleigh 20 from the 70’s that I found wrecked a few years ago. The hub appears fine, but will service it as per info above. Always good to have the factory manuals!
As a result of finding this site, it has prodded me into doing something with my first MTB frame (steel) so it will have the Torpedo hub with an old AMP parallelogram fork. All the frame cable mounts etc have all been removed so it will look very clean and a bit retro.
Will post pics when done, keep up the good work.
Cheers Kev (NZ)
July 15, 2008 at 11:37 am
Harry,
I measured up my hub tonight (as I need to start thinking about getting some spokes too) and the dimensions are:
Diameter of flanges as measured CL to CL of spoke holes: 58mm
Flange to flange (CL’s) across hub: 50mm
From flange face to serrated face, drive side: 28mm
From flange face to nut face non-drive side: 31mm
Add say an extra 1.5mm a side for flange thickness and it all adds up to 112mm as listed above.
PS don’t be too hard on the local bike shops- mass produced bikes are the way they make a living. They wouldn’t survive just just on the odd bits us bike building nutters buy from them! Any bike sold and out there may result in another possible future eccentric bike builder…..
Cheers Kev.
July 17, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Thanks Kevin,
That’s great to have. You’re right, I was being cranky about the local bike shops.
July 17, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Hello,
I myself have been a pleased Duomatic user for years. I do not intend to damage your busioness, but somehow I do believe that 100 Euro is a bit expensive. Don’t get me wrong: Duomatic hubs are rare, they’re excellent mechanices, but… You can get them way cheaper, at least you could not so long ago.
Check for instance http://www.velo-classic.de (yeah, it’s in german). Their pirce list is not very recent (2004), but when I bought a NOS Duomatic there three years ago their price was still the same as stated in the list: E 50,-.
So I do not know how much profit is made on these hubs, but I would say that they deserve to be sold for a fair price! The more Duomatic users, the better the world!
July 19, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Anton,
thanks for the information about velo classic. They have a wide range on old bicycle parts. Amazing!!!
The fair price is a intersting question. I force nobody to buy a hub for me.
There are sometimes interesting Duomatic auctions on ebay. This could be another source!
I agree on your final statment. Every cyclist on this planet is a bright spot.
Gruß,
Marco
July 28, 2008 at 4:21 am
Hello Torpedo fans!
I have an idea for using the 28 hole Torpedos out there on the bigger rims.
Orthodoxy says a 28 spoke rear wheel will not be sturdy.
But then I noticed that many mountain bike wheelsets do in fact have a 28 spoke rear wheel strong enough for going off-road. Not only the 26 inch rims, but the newer mountain 700c wheels too.
Then I looked at wheels rims for smaller tyre width, and there is one brand that makes a strong 28 spoke rear wheel in 700c.
I’ve also heard generally that rims are a lot stronger these days. Worth a thought I guess!
August 4, 2008 at 6:42 pm
hi all
I have aquired one of these hubs however it appears to stay in one gear?!?!? the brake works fine and i have opened the hub and found nothing out of the ordinary i was wondering if any one has experience with these hubs?or experienced the problem???
Paul
August 12, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Hi Marco
I have the older Torpedo Duomatic with the grease fitting and the 10.5mm axle.
Do you have any axle nuts to fit?
September 8, 2008 at 10:29 pm
I need to re-grease my old Torpedo Duomatic, but I do not recognize any of the types of grease mentioned in the instructions. Can you suggest a modern brand or type (and weight) of grease to use? Is it an ordinary ball bearing grease (brown color) or is it a grease loaded with some additive like moly (might make it black color)?
Thank you for posting the instructions, very helpful!!
By the way, 28 hole Duomatics work great on city bikes with small wheels, small wheels don’t need so many spokes.
– Doug
September 14, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Hi Doug,
you can use a standard grease for ball bearings. Use this kind of grease for all moving parts inside the hub.
You need a second grease for the coaster brake. This is called a high temperature grease. It´s available from SRAM and SHIMANO.
You can buy these products in every bicycle shop!
Gruß,
Marco
October 5, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Hey Marco, just wondering if you had any duomatics left mate?
Thanks
lee
October 6, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Hello,
Interesting hubs. Do you still have any to sell?
Thanks,
Erik
October 21, 2008 at 6:26 am
I have a Sachs
Duomatic that supposedly was never used. I changed the grease and assembled it correctly according to the great instructions on your website. I understand how it works but when assembled on the bike (laced onto a wheel, etc.) it seems to “skip” when I go for a ride and pedal hard forward. I have taken it apart many times and have understood how the mechanism works and the pieces seem to have not been used. Any ideas on why it is skipping when I pedal hard? The parts do seem unworn / brand new. I did have to make aluminum spacers with holes that are oval shaped. They slide right over the flats of the axle and key the axle to the dropouts.
thanks for any suggestions.
best regards,
October 30, 2008 at 1:49 am
28 spokes are fine in 26″ wheels. They used to be pretty common (even for mountain bikes). No need to worry that 28 spokes isn’t strong enough for a big wheel.
November 4, 2008 at 1:15 am
any possiblility of purchasing a nos or rebuilt sachs kickback hub?
take care
david
January 14, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Hey, why don’t we stop doting on the Duomatic and start making them? Would the designs still be under intellectual property protection?
We could even improve it, using brass for the brake and gears (perhaps) and forging the shell and maybe other parts.
Any metal workers out there? I am a beginner but getting hold of a home foundry soon….
January 21, 2009 at 8:22 pm
There is a document on hubstripping which mentions a duomatic model 101 without coaster brake:
http://hubstripping.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/torpedo-duomatic-old-exploded.jpg
(See the text at the very bottom of the page). Has anyone seen one of these hubs?
Very interesting! The diagram also shows that all parts between the 101 and 102
are common except the brake lever, brake shell and lever cone. So it might be possible
to convert a duomatic 102 to a freewheel version (although I personally am happy with
the coaster brake).
John
February 2, 2009 at 3:12 pm
Bought an old bike for 30€ and guess which hub it had! A duomatic 36 spoke hub. Haven’t used a doumatic since the 70’s so was really excited. Yesterday I cut out the hub from the old bike, and now the hub and my everyday commuter bike is at the bike store to be fused. See pictures of the hub. Will post some pictures later when the bike is all ready.
February 2, 2009 at 3:13 pm
http://imagehostr.net/galerie.php?g=116fd42ac088f25829cf7cfadabe1a0e
February 2, 2009 at 3:24 pm
To Harry: very good idea about the remake! Would like to see some pix of your home foundry etc.
February 10, 2009 at 5:14 am
HI!!
I am considering adding this to an aluminum track bike with 120mm drop outs– is it possible?
1) What modifications do I need to make?
2) Will the rear aluminum stays get shredded by the braking force?
February 25, 2009 at 5:21 pm
@John: There was a duomatic on ebay last week without the brake arm, I assumed it was missing parts so ignored it, but it must have been a model 101. Can’t find it now on completed items search but the seller was Italian if that suggests any keywords which might be in the title…
@Help!: Just put some spacers on the non-drive side. You’ll probably have to bend the clip which holds the brake arm a bit too. I’d have thought your stays would take it; I’m sure there are many Al bikes out there with coaster brakes, and track frames tend to have heavier duty stays than normal.
March 11, 2009 at 5:42 am
recently scored a torpedo duomatic hub. having problems with sprocket pitch.
who offers drive sprockets with pitch to fit standard cranks?
March 20, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Duomatics here they come. Remake of the Duomatic hub as seen at the Taipei Cycle Show today: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bob406/3369439021
Full coverage in my blog: http://rethinktheworld.blogspot.com/2009/03/taipei-cycle-show-2009.html
April 21, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Hi all
Very interesting and usefull info about F&S hubs. Been looking around the internet to find info like this. I am quite new to the hub “game” but i would like to build a bike with a F&S Torpedo hub. The problem is i do not know excactly which torpedo hub i need for the bike i would like to build.
I would like the bike to be able to be single-speed free wheeler with pedal brake (does this makes sense?). So i’m able to coast and break by moving to pedals backwards. I have been looking around the internet for this kind of torpedo hub but i’m not sure which one is ideal for this purpose. I have come across torpedo hubs like these:
“NOS” VINTAGE REICHENBACH 32-57-28 TORPEDO HUB
“NOS” VINTAGE SACHS TORPEDO BOY HUB
“NOS” VINTAGE F&S SCHWEINFURT 28 2.8 TORPEDO HUB
Does anyone now which excact hub would be best for a city bike that is single-speed and with a free wheel and brake hub?
Thanks you
Kasper
June 9, 2009 at 1:49 am
Hello Kasper,
This thread on the history of Torpedo hubs will help you understand which hubs are which and which would best suit you:
http://www.cyclemuseum.org.uk/ncl/pics/Fichtel%20&%20Sachs%20Torpedo%20Duomatic%20(V-CC%20Library).pdf
June 9, 2009 at 1:51 am
Whoops! Wrong link! Sorry! This is what I meant to post:
http://yarchive.net/bike/torpedo_hubs.html
June 12, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Hello Marco
Super with this “Duoshop”…
Is it possible to buy 2 Duomatic R 2110 new version? and what will the total price incl. shipping to Copenhagen – Denmark
Cay
June 13, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Hi Cay,
the hubs are still available. I´ll write you a mail!
Gruß,
Marco
June 17, 2009 at 6:18 am
Hey Marco this hub would make a very cool addition to my california cruiser. I’m curious about something, there was a guy selling a three speed Torpedo on ebayuk today… does this exist and how do I get one of those? Can you assist me with this ,and if so,how much? Thanks, Christian
June 17, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Hi Christian,
the 3 speed Torpedo hub is the predecessor of the today called SRAM T3 hub.
Please check the sram website for details. You can shift the 3 gears via a shifting lever which is connected by a bowden cable with the hub. You can order this hub by any bicycle dealer around your corner!
The Torpedo Duomatic hub I can offer you has two gears and can be shifted by a short backpedal of the cranks. A bowden cable is not required.
Gruß,
Marco
June 18, 2009 at 5:19 am
Marco Im glad I missed out on that sale, because his picture of his hub was exactly like you’re picture,no cable,and I know the one you’re about I,ve seen it on ebay as well. Good to know.So I am very interested in getting one of you’re hubs for my cruiser,I’m sure it’s pretty rare in California, so please if you would, qoute me a price on one with shipping to San Jose California postal code 95110 THANK YOU Christian
June 19, 2009 at 6:56 pm
The pitch on my two speed sachs hub sprocket, prevents use with all my standard pitch cranks.
How is everyone using their Sachs hubs?
replacing with old steel cranks with different pitch?
June 20, 2009 at 8:22 am
Hi CY,
the sprockets of the hubs use a standard which is also used by SHIMANO and SRAM. So you can use all of these sprockets with all internal gear hubs.
There are mainly two different chain dimensions used for internal geared hubs sprockets:
1/2″ x 3/32″ (Rohloff, SHIMANO, SRAM, S&A)
and
1/2″ x 1/8″ (SHIMANO, SRAM, S&A).
This means the lenght is always 1/2″. But the width of the chain is different.
Most “new” cranks and sprockets come with 1/2″ x 3/32″ (also used by Shimano 7 / 8 Speed derailleur systems). You can use always the wider chain 1/8″ with a narrow crank or sprocket 3/32″ for internal geared hubs.
The only problem you can run into, is to use a narrow chain with a wide crank or sprocket!
Gruß,
Marco
June 20, 2009 at 1:32 am
I have a 1/8″ Sugino Mighty Competition chainwheel on a Camapagnolo Gran Sport road crank. It needed some spacers made out of an old chainwheel to get the chainline right.
However, you can change the sprocket at the back to a standard, 1/32″ very easily. Simply prise off the circlip, change the sprocket and replace the circlip.
You can get sprockets at:
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html#sprockets
June 21, 2009 at 7:58 pm
I received my beautiful NOS Duomatic from the treasure trove and have stripped and re-greased it. I notice that after leaving it out for a few days the exterior of the hub shell shows a bit of rust. There was no rust on the shell when I finished cleaning it (using cotton cloths– nothing abrasive), so I can see rust might be a problem if it develops this quickly.
Would like to coat the hub shell with something to prevent (or at least delay) rust. Would auto wax or aerosol teflon (e.g. 3M Scotchguard) help? I’ve never owned a hub with a steel shell before, so this is a new situation for me. Any ideas?
June 29, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Hi Marco,
Is it possible to buy the 2-speed F&S Torpedo DUOMATIC hub from you? Please kindly offer me a price including the freight cost to Taiwan. TKS and have a nice day.
regards,
Gino
July 12, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Hi Gino,
I´ll send you the details!
Gruß,
Marco
July 3, 2009 at 2:07 pm
Please, contact me about those 2 Torpedo duomatics.
I´ve sent You a couple of mails, but I´m not sure if You have get those. I received some note from Your operator and didn´t fully understand the message because it was written in german.
July 12, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Hi Markku,
Sorry for the late answer. I was on “Internet Free” holidays and my out of office reply was deleted due to a server shut down!
I´ll send you a mail with the details.
Gruß,
Marco
July 7, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Hello Marco,
I have not received my hubs since purchase in June . Your email isn’t working . . Please contact me…
Thanks,
Bruce
July 10, 2009 at 9:47 pm
Hey Marco,
Hit me up when you get this — interested in buying some more Duomatics!
Prost,
Bob
July 11, 2009 at 12:30 am
Hi Marco,
Please disregard my above message.. hubs safely arrived today .. they look great! .. the box not so much, it had a very hard life en route to the US… haha
Thanks,
Bruce
July 11, 2009 at 1:27 am
Mine took a full four weeks for mine to arrive to the east coast as well, but arrived in good condition
July 16, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Hi Marco,
Please can you tell me if you have any duomatics left for sale.?.
For the bob jackson
http://www.flickr.com/photos/eldooderino/sets/72157605210934878/
Many thanks
Nick
July 16, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Hi Nick,
there is a Duomatic for sure ….for the beautiful Bob!
I´ll write you a mail!
Gruß,
Marco
July 20, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Hi, I would like to fit the Duo hub in conjunction with speed drive front chain wheel. What info do you need. Thanks Paul.
July 20, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Hi Paul,
this combination is possible and makes sense.
Gruß,
Marco
July 21, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Paul, I think the idea of it is probably better than the implementation .. I have Speed Drives (which I like a lot), but the pairing with a kickback duomatic might be inconvenient in practice.. Moulton offered a new model with the same setup.
http://www.moultonbicycles.co.uk/models/Moulton50.html
One of my internet friends wrote about his personal experience with a Duomatic/SpeedDrive installation on his personal bike.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=8400640&postcount=5
The gear jump of the SpeedDrive is quite high at 1.65 overdrive.. here’s a sample gear inch calculation using a Duomatic/Speed Drive .. overall gear range 223% .. gear inch model = 39/53/65/88 .. with SpeedDrive in 1:1 direct drive and Duomatic in 1:1, low=39″ .. if you heel shift with SpeedDrive to ‘overdrive’, it would yield 65″.. backpedal the Duomatic yields the highest gear of 88″, heel shift SpeedDrive back to direct and you get 53″… so there would be lots of heel shift/backpedal shifting to stay in a sweet spot while trying to avoid confusion… the setup does look elegant though.. good luck with it if you press on, I also have spare SpeedDrives if interested.
July 26, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Hi Bruce,
Can you give me more info on your spare
speeddrives?
- Are they new or used,
- are they in good condition?
- what chainring is fitted?
- what is the cost?
Thanks,
John I
July 27, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Hi John, you can contact me off list at brucemetras at yahoo dot com..
Best,
Bruce
August 6, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Hallo Marco,
ist es immer noch möglich, bei Dir eine Duomatic-Nabe zu kaufen? Gebraucht oder neu ist egal. Hatte ein Rad mit so einer, war außerordentlich zufrieden damit, wurde aber leider gestohlen. Falls lieferbar, bezahle ich gern im Voraus.
Ich wohne in Norwegen, meine Adresse kommt, wenn dies aktuell werden sollte.
Gruß
Edgar
August 8, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I have a 1959 hub (letter B)
Do you have parts if needed?
August 10, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Man …
Any of those mint out of the original box Duomatics left?
Marco, please let me know more
K, thanks
August 13, 2009 at 4:44 am
Dear Marco,
I want to build PISTO with Duomatic.
Do you still have Duomatic?
If yes, I want to purchase one.
Best Regards,
Masaru
August 13, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Hi Mauricio,
ask Jens Hansen. He has a great resource on spare parts for all kind of hubs,
http://www.scheunenfun.de.
Hi Dave, hi Masaru,
I´ll send you a E-Mail with the details.
Gruß,
Marco
August 17, 2009 at 3:00 pm
Helloo,
I like to by a F&S Torpedo DUOMATIC hub.
Is it possible to ship it to The Netherlands?
I’ll wait for your answer.
Greetings from me,
Charles Waagenaar
August 19, 2009 at 12:49 pm
Hello Marco.
I really like my Torpedo Duomatic and now I would like to buy another one to my second cruiser. If You still have those NOS gadgets, please send me your bank details (I´ve lost those, You sent me earlier, sorry) and prize for 1 hub + shipping to Finland.
August 20, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Hi Marco! You have written on this page about Duomatic hubs and what versions there was. From 1964-1970 there was Duomatic 102 with 10,5 mm axel with 2 flat sides on it. I have a Duomatic 102 with the same description from 1971, so the dates aren´t right.
August 21, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Hi Rolle,
thank you for this information. I received my information from a german forum. A former Sachs employee spread the information there. I tried to find the link but I think the tread was deleted.
Gruß,
Marco
August 23, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Fichtel & Sachs (F&S) Torpedo DUOMATIC
Do you still have available?
Are they 32 0r 36 hole?
Thank You
August 24, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Hi,
Thanks for this great site and posting the manual with diagrams!
I just got a 1967 CCM GT-101 Torpedo Duomatic from my father, who bought the bicycle new in the spring of 1968. He probably put about 200 miles on it total and it has sat unused since the 1970s. It is practically mint with the exception of a few tiny rust spots that would not come off.
The hub is marked F&SJ (which I learned from this site gives it a production date of 1967). It is the 36 hole version. I cleaned it out and reassembled it with new lubricants. It works perfectly as does the coaster brake.
Now, for my technical question. The bicycle has a 46t chainring and the hub has a 19t cog giving an input ratio of 2.42. Given that the wheels are 700C, this makes the gearing quite tall, e.i., the 1:1 ratio is perfect for cruising and commuting but the 1:1.36 gear is too high to be useful to me. I have a fair number of hills to get up so I am considering swapping out the 46t chainring for a 36t. This would make high gear perfect for commuting on the flats and leave the 1:1 gear for start-ups and the hills. However, it would mean an input ratio of 1.89.
I was about to go ahead until I read a story about a guy who has had problem with axle spin on his racing bicycle with a 46t/20t duomatic. Somebody wrote in and said that the Torpedo Duomatic with the round axle can’t handle any less input ratio than 2.4 as this is too much torque for it.
Can anybody confirm that I will have problems with axle spin if I do go with a 36t/19t on this hub? Is anybody having problems in this regard running less than 2.4 input?
I got the bike to commute but if I can’t gear it down, I will probably just repace the hub with something like an SRAM 7.
Thanks,
Eric.
August 24, 2009 at 4:43 pm
I geared down for the same reason and also read the blog post at http://www.powderblueorbit.com/2009/02/sachs-torpedo-duomatic-hub-issues.html.
FWIW, I’ve had no axle spinning issues with 38×18 (the sprocket is for a Shimano hub) using the standard F&S nuts in the first 100 miles.
August 24, 2009 at 4:55 pm
This guy’s issue may have been exacerbated by some other problems with his original build (e.g. chainline, bad paint on dropouts): http://www.powderblueorbit.com/2009/05/hub-issues-solved.html
August 24, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Thanks for the info. Upon further inspection, I seem that my axle is not round is a 10,5mm axel diameter, with two flat sides on the axle. That probably solves the axle spin problem.
Do you think I would still have a problem with wheel slippage?
Also, I read that using a non-Duomatic cog can lead to slop as these cogs are a little different than standard cogs. That is why I thought to replace my chainring. However, has anybody here had problems with using different cogs on the older vesion of the Duomatic Hub (pre-1970)?
thx
September 4, 2009 at 5:27 pm
If the Fichtel & Sachs (F&S) Torpedo DUOMATIC is available on the Pashley guv’nor, doesn’t that mean they are manufacturing it again?
September 4, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Do you have a link? The specs I see at http://www.pashley.co.uk/guvnor/models.html suggest it’s a 3 speed hub
September 4, 2009 at 5:52 pm
Here the limited edition Guv’nor Plus Four
http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor-plus-four.html
I doubt they sell it with new old stock parts!
We want bikes for the rest of us!
September 4, 2009 at 8:34 pm
Hi Jorge,
please notice what they mention on the pashley site:
B – ALL 50 GUV’NOR PLUS FOUR’S HAVE NOW BEEN SOLD
It seems to me like a limited edition.
Gruß,
Marco
September 7, 2009 at 5:41 am
Yea, I said limited edition, what i mean, would they be NOS, these parts do get old by time, are they making these Duomatic again, they should come out with Trematic…, hey, we want bikes for the rest of us! cheers, j
September 5, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Marco,
Are these hubs still available & how much for hub & postage to Sydney, Australia?
Dome.
September 5, 2009 at 9:59 pm
With regards to axle spinning,
I think the guy who posted this blog:
http://www.powderblueorbit.com/2009/02/sachs-torpedo-duomatic-hub-issues.html.
was having trouble because he was using a washer
next to the right-hand cone, you can see it in the 8th
photo. The teeth on the cone will not grip a steel washer.
I have made a aluminium washer which works really well and allows the hub to be spaced out to 120mm, with only minor dish. I will send a photo to marco
and hopefully he can post it on the website.
John I
September 5, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Hi again,
Just to answer the question by Eric Noel,
regarding gear ratios, I am using 36 x 20
and my personal experience
is that I do not have any axle slipping or spinning problems.
I’m not a super strong rider, but I do ride out of the saddle.
Hope this helps,
John I
September 7, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Hi John,
thanks for for sharing your NTWD “Non Turing Washer Design” for the DUOMATIC hub.
http://hubstripping.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/john´s-duomatic-bicycle-project/
Gruß,
Marco
September 7, 2009 at 10:10 pm
Have you any Duomatic Hubs left for sale please?
September 11, 2009 at 9:38 am
Hellou…
My Torpedo Duomatic delivery has just arrived to Finland and it seemed to be ok. Although the package was covered with oil!!!, BUT I think that´s not from my hub. Let´s see. Thanks anyway.
September 11, 2009 at 9:46 am
One question. I found an old Torpedo hub with only text near oillock: F&S TORPEDO ZWEIGANG. There are no other marks. Any ideas, what it might be and would it contain gears?
September 11, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Hi Markku,
I wish you a lot of fun with the hubs. “Zweigang” means in German “two gears”. There should be two gears inside. Maybe you can send me a picture for more details!
Gruß,
Marco
September 17, 2009 at 8:21 pm
I have a Columbia Twosome with a Sachs Duomatic Hub. It is marked with an “O” indicating 1971 production. However, it has a “2 flat sided axle” and lubricator cap common to the ‘64-’70. The lady I bought it from said her dad bought it in the early to mid ’60’s (I realize this could be ambiguous info), but what about the other info?
Thanks for your help – Jerry
September 20, 2009 at 12:32 am
Well, after previously using a Duomatic in a Moulton Stowaway, I found a 36-hole model, and was going to build it into my Kronan city bike to replace the singlespeed. However, my friend John built a fast road bike with a Duo, and I was so impressed I built one too!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2669/3934341703_57ffc1cf8b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2572/3934301736_dbc3cbf1ba.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/3934300120_fc7bce4b56.jpg
…however, my joy was short lived, as the rear wheel locked up solid about 100 mtrs into the first ride. I now need to investigate, but first, has anyone a quick idea of what the problem might be?
September 20, 2009 at 1:08 am
Please let me know if you have any Duomatics available for sale. Thanks!
September 21, 2009 at 10:15 am
Hi Michael,
I´ll write you a mail!
Gruß,
Marco
September 21, 2009 at 4:50 am
Hi, i’m looking for the brake lever and axle nuts on an older
Torpedo hub any chance you might have that available also
the front hub?
September 21, 2009 at 7:48 am
Hi George,
please contact Jens from….
So if you looking for a old hub e.g. Fichtel & Sachs or some spareparts have a lock on his website
http://www.scheunefun.de
Here is the link to the Duomatic spareparts and hubs….
http://www.scheunenfun.de/f+s_duomatic.htm
Gruß,
Marco
September 21, 2009 at 9:47 pm
I have a 1967 F&S Duomatic hub with the original 18t cog.
I switched it for a 22t Shimano cog off of a Nexus-Inter 3 hub and it is a perfect fit, even a little tighter than the original. I thought I would post this info because I had read a report that the Shimano cogs were of sufficiently larger internal diameter to create slop, which was not my experience.
I love this hub! It spins so freely even after 42 years (though I did overhaul it with new grease after a 25 year hiatus). It is strong enough to lock and skid the back wheel as well. My new SRAM S7 coaster brake has better modulation but it is also brand new. Both get warm when used to decelerate in the montains but not overly hot.
October 19, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Just read the following:
http://thebikeshow.net/fixie-killer-sturmey-archer-s2c/
Seems Sturmey is coming out with a new version of the much vaunted Duomatic. I will be getting one to put on my road frame, instead of my current Shimano CB-E110.
October 21, 2009 at 6:35 pm
I have a question for you Duomatic afficionados. I want to add some oil to the oil port on my 1967 Duomatic. The instructions say: Esso Universal Oil, Shell Donax H, etc. Obviously, these oils are out of production.
How heavy an oil do you guys add to the oil port? I am thinking to use Mobile 1 0W-20 since I live in Canada and it is cold here most of the time. Any suggestions are appreciated.
October 27, 2009 at 3:45 am
I have a Peugeot Porteur (1970/1072) with a Duomatic hub (I’m not sure). In the middle of the hub there are two numbers: one is 36 (the number of spokes) and a 2.8. My question is about this: what is the meaning os 2.8?
Thanks by your attention.
Carlos
October 27, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Hi Carlos,
the 2.8 stands for 28 and this is the amount of spokeholes. There are also 36 spokehole hubs available.
Gruß,
Marco
October 28, 2009 at 4:18 am
thanks for your help.
November 2, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Marco i’m sorry to insist but 2.8 can´t be the mumber of spokeholes. My hub has 36 spokeholes. tks
November 5, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Carlos, I’m guessing here, but after measuring, 2.8 (mm?) is very close to the spoke hole size on my 36h Automatic hub.
Bruce
October 28, 2009 at 11:53 am
Hey Marco,
I’m rebuilding a vintage step through frame for my girl. I’ve been searching for nos coaster hubs and recently came across a guy selling both the Sachs Duomatic and Bendix 2 speed (yellow band). Aesthetically I preferred the Bendix but it was significantly more expensive. Wondering if you have an experience with them and could offer a comparison with the Sachs Duomatic.
Thanks
October 28, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Hi Dave,
I have no experience with the Bendix. Therefore I cannot support you with a comparison!
Gruß,
Marco
November 5, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Hello Marco and fellow ‘Duo-maniacs’
I was wondering if the ‘Duomatic 102′ can be spaced-out (with washers) to fit 120mm OLN dropouts, or do you always have to re-set the frame?
As Eric asks above, I would also like to know which readily-available oil I can safely use in the hub. I have an old can of Sturmey oil but it’s down to the dregs…
Many thanks